We need to show more sympathy for these people.

I'd be interested in hearing about all these social benefits that Democrats are supposed to be lavishing on illegal immigrants, especially since it was a bi-partisan bill that was drawn up for the "solution" of this problem. It wasn't much of a solution that they came up with and support is eroding on the bill, but if you're going to blame Democrats for these supposed social benefits handed out to illegals, you'd darn well better blame Republicans, too. The only way that this mess is going to be solved is by both sides working together, whether they like it or not.

Our troops do have it hard: besides the conditions that you mention, their tour of duty has been extended again and again, driving families to the breaking point, financially and otherwise. It's bad enough - horrible enough - that almost 3,500 soliders have been killed: that's 3500 families with a hole ripped in their life. Families of soldiers are losing their homes and businesses, and the current administration tried to cut their combat pay and cut back on veteran's benefits. Veterans coming home with injuries can't be treated because of a lack of funds or space in VA hospitals, and those who do manage to end up in facilities may suffer the same fate as those found at Walter Reed, supposedly the prize of our military hospitals. Having these brave people come home and then found lying in their own filth in a hospital is a national disgrace.

A common misconception by the conservative media is that Democrats don't support our troops. This is absurd, a charge meant to slur anyone with an inkling of common sense. I believe that Democrats support our troops to the point that they would like to have them safe and protected (not just with military-grade armor, the kind missing from our vehicles when our troops were sent to Iraq) - to the point that our troops should be brought home. Our current administration has gotten a free pass to ask for no-strings-attached funds from Congress with the threat that if they didn't get the money, the opposition was going to "cut-and-run" or "hated the troops" or "waving the white flag/appeasing the terrorists." This game of tarring the opposition has been played long enough: new evidence released from declassified documents today show that once Saddam was gone, partisan violence was a very strong possibility, and terrorists would flock to Iraq to help in the killing. Well, it happened, and now we're caught in the crossfile of a civil war. Our current administration didn't see that one coming, either, like so many things. Getting out of this mess, with no more loss of brave soldiers - keeping our soldiers alive - is the best honoring of our military that I can think of. If you don't think so, put yourself in the place of a 22-year-old soldier in Iraq and come up with a reason why you're there. Our war in Iraq was based on weapons of mass destruction (none found), Saddam and bin Laden were buddies and planning on attacking the U.S. (they didn't like each other and never planned anything of a sort, and Iraq was not involved with the attacks on September 11), and when those excuses didn't work, we were spreading freedom to the Middle East and protecting our freedom (how to do teach people that haven't had democracy in their 4,000 year old history what freedom is about, and who apparently don't want freedom anyway; and how are we protecting our freedom by being in Iraq? By "fighting them over there instead of over here?" Doesn't say much for the megabillion dollar Homeland Security Department). These poor soldiers are dying and getting severly injured, and I don't think they have an idea what they're fighting for. I like my American soldiers alive, so that they can be at home receiving the honors that they deserve; having weeping relatives place wreaths on their graves may honor their bravery, but it doesn't help the fallen soldiers one bit.

And I would respectfully suggest that you don't believe that conservative media the next time they bring up that archaic argument that the Democrats don't support our troops. Balance that out with what our current administration hasn't done to protect our troops from harm after they were sent to Iraq.

Winslow Bunny
Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

Hey K Lloyd, I don't think I'm as out of touch as some people that I've run into - and considerably less than most, like those who patronize Fox for their news. And yes, there is a conservative media - don't try to convince me that Viacom, which owns CBS, or GE, which owns NBC, or Disney, which owns ABC, are "liberal" companies. They have their standards and they dictate how the news goes on. If you find them to be more "liberal" than Fox, that's not a surprise - but it doesn't make them liberal. The fact is (yes, a fact) that conservatives have been railing against the "liberal" media for more than 15 years now in an effort to bully the news stations to the right, and it's worked. Even Pat Buchanan, who could never be mistaken for a liberal, admitted in 1992 that the whole "liberal media" campaign was a sham, something invented to bring pressure on news organizations to become more conservative. It's happened.

You did a lot of fancy spewing yourself, most of it of a creative nature taking place in your own mind. I lost enough friends from war myself, and I don't need anyone telling me where to get my information from. I read their letters and went to their funerals. As far as "most of America supporting this war," maybe you'd like to explain why 2/3s of Americans polled are against this war? Maybe because we don't like seeing soldiers come home in a box, or missing body parts. And if you believed the stories from your Fox cronies that WMD were found over there, in Iraq or Syria, because facts (yes, FACTS) show that there were no WMDs in Iraq; certainly if there was, Bush would have been singing about finding those. But there never was and never will be, the inspectors that were over there never found them and our troops certainly never found them.

Have you asked the Iraqi people if they want freedom, is that how you know that they want a democratic government? Or are they interested in the Sunnis, Shiites or Kurds gaining power to put the bite on their enemy of 4000 years? If you don't know, don't be afraid to admit as much; just don't tell me that they want something when they don't know that they are supposed to want it. And don't tell me about "more liberal propaganda that you have all to willingly swallowed." It appears that you've swallowed a healthy dose of conservative propaganda, which is just like liberal propaganda except that they haven't told you the news as you'd like to hear it.

Two last things: speaking of sad, lame, and uninformed things that are done, don't you EVER say that I called any of your friends stupid for fighting, as in your phrase "I don't appreciate you calling my friends, some of who have died, stupid for fighting for freedom...thats a sad, lame, uninformed thing to do." I had nothing except praise for our people in uniform, and find it highly insulting to put hateful words in my mouth. I don't believe them, or you, are stupid in the least. We may not agree regarding our choice of politics, national action, TV news or sources of information - and we may find many areas of agreement on many subjects - but I'll make you a deal, don't put words in my mouth, and I won't put words in yours. If it happens, neither one of us will like the outcome.

Finally, there's no Ba hai at the end of my comments. You're a smart boy, if you want to know what it says, look it up. You might even appreciate it. In the meantime, I'm not telling you what you can put on your post, so don't tell me what I can put on my post, in any language that it might appear in.

Winslow Bunny
Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

Well RJ1127 pretty much took the words right out of my mouth. But I have been the young guy carrying a weapon overseas, and like RJ says, the mission is the only thing you think about,(ie: they don't want to leave without getting the job/mission done) and not failing the guys around you--peace time or war. Bunny, I do believe you are sincere in your concern for our military, but like many liberals, you don't get it when it comes to the commitment our military men and women have and the love they have for this great country, and the love and commitment they have for each other. You said you don't think our troops have any idea what they are doing over there??? How can you have the audacity to presume to know what those men and women are thinking and challenge their commitment to their mission? This is the most advanced, well equipped, most intelligent military ever fielded, and they know exactly what they are doing. The press will get a hold of a few mal-contents who cry about everything and those clips will be run endlessly to get to Americans think what the liberal press wants them to think, and they are very good at it. It takes a discerning mind to get a grip on everything that is going on in the world. I don't presume to know everything and I don't. I do know there is a mind set of people out there, some press call them islami-facist, who will do anything to destroy every free country, every non-Islamic country in the world. You can't be a keen observer and not know this. The US and Great Britian and its allies are taking on this force of hatred and its not popular. Many would advocate pulling our troops home and do the ostrich manuever, and then we might as well kiss our ****** good-bye as then radical Islam will have free reign to expand. Some people think 9/11 was the opening shot against us, but they are ill-informed as the Marine Barracks was part of the beginning or declared war on freedom, and there are the embassy bombings and attacks going back to the Reagan-Carter era, the USS Cole the 1st attack on the WTC, and the list will not stop until these maniacs are pretty much utterly destroyed, because they will not stop. And trying to reason with them and bake apple pie and sing kum-by-a will not stop them, it will take strong men and women dedicated to fighting our enemies where ever they are, and it will take the blood of our fallen to accomplish this. I wish it were not so, I wish there was another way, but wishing things were different or better does not make it so. Nothing great was ever accomplished by mamby-pamby flower children wishing the world was a nicer place. It takes courageous men and women like our ancestors who would rather die than live in bondage to any thing or any one. Previous to WW2, Iran was so devastated it was on the verge of extinction as a nation, its just too bad it wasn't taken over by the British when they had the chance.
And, Bunny, polls indicate rather strongly Democrats do not support our troops and the war on terrorism, and those are your own polls, not those done by conservatives.
You can spout liberal propaganda all you want but you have to live with your own polls.
I don't want us to be involved in wars and watch body bags un-loaded at Dover AFB. I don't want us to be at war with Iran, and I believe most Iranians do not want war with the US, either. They know we can and will pummel them into dust any time we want, especially if Iran continues their nuclear weapon campaign...statistics say as many as 70% of the youth in Iran would rather go to the US than go to war with the US.
I have exceeded my 2 cents worth--sorry to those of you with eye-strain.

One nation under God

Klloyd, first of all, thank you for your service. As a vietnam era vet myself, I so much appreciate your expression of unity and teamwork.

Unfortunately, the liberal mindset is very dominate in the media, and even more unfortunately they are short-sighted and can't seem to appreciate that this 'war on terrorism' is a real thing. The enemy is not logical at all, extremely passionate, and for them time is not a major factor. They are willing to take what we think is a very long time to accomplish their stated objectives which is to 'wipe out' the infidels (that's us) and Israel. I believe they are deadly committed to this goal. The liberals seem not to be willing to acknowledge this as reality.

Deserve Victory

Well Bunny has the Constitutional right to say what she wants same as the rest of us, and I don't question her passion for what she believes, but too many American men and women have shed their blood for their name to be sullied, and question the commitment of our troops over sea's right now. I have talked with and spent time with them and they have a deep, burning passion to complete the mission set before them, and they are true patriots who love the United States deeply...and they surely don't want to, but they are willing to die doing what they think is the right thing. They believe they are in the right place doing the right thing. God Bless all you Vets and those who support freedom in its truest form.

A Side Note: In St Cloud (MN), a soldier who lost a foot in Iran was the last of his unit to make it home, flown by private jet paid for by Anderson Trucking of St Cloud. He was welcomed by his unit Commander, Major Howe and the rest of the unit who were already home, as well as over 400 Patriot Guard on their motorcycles and hundreds of locals. That event should have been covered by the national media, but was barely covered in the MN regional press. That did not take away from the young troop receiving the hero's welcome he deserved by the St Cloud PD, Fire Dept, MN State Patrol, several county SO Patrol escorts, and other local PD and Gold Cross Paramedic vehicles. Each of our troops coming home should receive no less. Those men and women are true American Hero's, nothing less.

I wish all of our Viet Nam Hero's could have received such a welcome...to think these brave American troops were actually spat on makes me sick to my stomach...God Bless them all.

VikesFan, salute to you for broaching this subject; You are entirely correct that men and women in our military live in intolerable conditions at times as they fight and die for this country. Often the lodging these troops experience as they go off to combat would not be considered habitable for our dogs, the meals not much better...but you rarely hear them complain. Thanks for bringing this to the attention of the local readers.

Bunny: the French philosopher (much quoted by American patriots) once said, "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight to the death your right to say it"...I and most Vets echo that sentiment. Our freedom of speech is one of the most valued rights we have in the United States, and perhaps the most taken for granted--until it is taken away . Fortunately we still have American Troops willing to die to defend our rights and give those rights to other people around the globe with their own blood.

One nation under God

Re: And to all a good night.

My, my, my. Such a collection of opinions against the most hated of creatures, a "liberal," as demonized by Newtie in the 1990s, with the tradition carrying on today. And yes, I did read the book, "Bias," and found it long on stories and short on facts and documentation. Sort of like an Ann Coulter book, only without the insults.

Since you've done me the great favor of suggesting reading material to me, which I appreciate, I would suggest you sit down with the book, "What Liberal Media?" by Eric Alterman. Granted, it's not on Fox's approved reading list, but I won't tell anybody you're reading it if you don't. It will be our little secret. It will be an eye opener for those who prefer some documentation with their declarations.

From what I've seen here, this has all turned into a rather fruitless exercise; we all believe what we want to believe, and nothing that anyone is going to say is going to convince the other side that they are wrong. Considering that none of you know a thing about me and mostly likely never will, especially the forces that shape my opinions, I don't expect you to look at my thinking and believe that I might be right. In the same way, I don't know any of you and how you came to think as you do, but we are all fervent in our beliefs and will remain so. You're absolutely right, too: we all have the Constitutional right to our freedom of speech, and you can by God exercise that freedom here and now.

In the meantime, you go back to watching Fox and I'll go back to whatever it is those horrible, horrible liberals do (ha ha ha ha).

Winslow Bunny
Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

Hi Roj2000:

Roj, you're a good man and okay in my book. I have conservatives for friends myself, and they're okay, too, and I don't think that they or you are nuts at all. What I think is: no matter if you're conservative or liberal, we all want what is best for the country and our people and our land, and while there is some variation to how we can get to the best, the goal is still the same. There's some disagreements out there in politics and there's some people stoking the fires against both sides, which leads to people getting pretty angry against each other, but I still believe that we're working for the best that we can do in this country.

Ha! And about the God part: (Don't tell anybody as this will just be another secret: I was ordained several years ago.) So I most definitely believe in God, Jesus, Holy Ghost, Moses, 10 Commandments, 12 diciples, Palm Sunday, Easter Sunday, do unto others, the meek getting the earth, stand up straight, keep your nose clean, clean your plate . . . sorry, got carried away there. But I am a Christian and a believer. And I like people with a sense of humor, and thank you for showing yours - when you do that, trust me, it makes everybody's day better.

Winslow Bunny
Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

Winslow Bunny,

Thanks for the kind words my "pineapple Bunny". I watch my liberal friends like I watch a hula dance, "Kuhi no ka lima, hele no ka maka", (where the hands move, let the eyes follow) or they will get you. Thanks for understanding that I just like to stir people up and have a little fun. So as you say, (I think), "that is how my story ends".

VikesFan,

Who pee'd in your cornflakes?? I (like George Bush) know that I cannot please everyone, and unlike the liberals, I am not going to say "what you want to hear" just to make you happy. Give me some examples of how I "had fun" at the expense of YOUR loved ones. Give me some and I will apoligize, otherwise, just keep reading. I hope you know that sometimes the "truth" does hurt!! Just one of those facts of life.

VikesFan,

I hope the Vikings can win "one or two" games this season, so you can lighten up!! As for Mr Constantine; I grew up with him, he was a neighbor of mine, and I went to Baptist church with him and his family. However, I now have a bone to pick with him. Many times when he was coaching, and I was going to be in a city where he coached, I would email him or his organization, and let him/them know who I was and would like to come to a game and see him and talk for a minute. "just like the old days". But I never "once" heard back from him. So, either he had some good filters/workers that kept my msgs from him, or he thought he was too big to talk to us "mere mortals" who grew up around him. So either way, I guess I have a chip on my shoulder towards him. So, don't tell me to keep my criticism's to myself, or I will start picking on your wonderful "Pro" footbal team. I wonder if the Falls is still near and dear to Mr Constantine?? He built a nice home in Brainard, Mn (I believe). Why not the Falls??

You are right Schmitty53, roj2000 needs time to heal. Others also need time to heal from roj2000's wound as well. Opinions are important, and needed, as long as ther are not at other peoples expense. My advise to roj2000 is take a much needed vacation and heal.....

Proudcitizen,

I just came off a week long vacation, and feel great! You must be bored having to read my awful comments! I don't have anything to "heal" from that I know of. Was it my comments towards Mr Constantine, or the lousy Vikings team, that you did not like?? I will try to be nicer though, so you can relax and enjoy some walleye fishing, OK??

TLJ,

You say it so well, it makes me envious!! As for the "minor league coach", I didn't attack him because of his faith!! I knew him growing up, and he and his family were good Christians (Baptists), and good people, and I was just saying that his behaviour was unbecoming of what I knew of him. I would like you to clarify if you think only those from the Falls who excelled in "sports" and got to the top of their professions, are worthy in your eyes. Or do those of us count who were in the military, and then started a second career, and got to the top of "both" professions?? I know you probably just think I've turned into some redneck from the south, who only has enough brains to blow his nose. But believe it or not I am a professional "just like you", but I use this forum and "others" to blow off some steam, and get people to think, and maybe even have them listen to another point of view. So, are Bill Maher and that "fat pig" Michael Moore, some of your professional heros?? Believe it or not, only one of the Fox people you mentioned, have any of my total respect. I do believe Bill O'Reilly. Anyone who doesn't see any good in Mr O;Reilly, is really out in left field. Believe it or not, one of my favorite people on "Fox" is Allen Colmbs. He has his liberal moments, but overall is, (may I say), really fair and balanced. But I cannot honestly believe that you don't think CNN has a liberal slant. Pls be fair about that. And none of your big words please, remember "keep it pithy"! But for someone of your educational level to think that us who tend to "bloviate" and make rather pointed comments, should "move on or over" because we have "bile" comments, is really going over the line. So in your professional opinion, we are "bad bloggers" as compared to what?? Do you want this site to be some silly little site, where anyone who visits it, will just say, "yes, Ms Mayor and City Council, you are the supreme ones". "Just do whatever you want to the city, and we will never complain, or contradict you decisions". We want to become a Ghost Town, and maybe people will want to come visit the museum, and see what a great city it used to be in the 50's, and 60's!! And they will come to the great National Park, and hug trees, and paddle canoes, (because they can't afford the gas for their 250 HP outboards). By the way, which of the candidates is the adulterer? Is it only adultry if you have sex with someone of the "oposite sex"? Why don't you like Sen McCain? Because he served in the Military, with distinction?? A little anti-war coming out in you? You failed to mention, former Senator Fred Thompson, our next President. What's wrong with him? I guess you can't be an adulterer before you're elected, only in the Oval Office bathroom. And so, that's the way it is, Wed, June 6th, 2007.

Does it concern anyone clamoring for Fred Thompson that at his best he is like Reagan on Prozac? Without the submarine movie he would be just another former senator who never authored an important piece of legislation or led the country in any sort of debate. Reagan, like the current California governor, had demonstrated his ability to lead a complex organization. So have Romney and Rudi.Fred has shown an ability to recite a memorized script with a certain level of gravitas. Period.
Our next president will have to restore that office to the level it has had and should have, not some B-actor. Sadly, we have been electing Republicans for 25 years based on their position on abortion. What is the sum total of their engagement with the subject? One small victory on so-called partial-birth abortion. The current Bush, the last Bush, and Reagan were functionally as disinterested in this issue once elected as any of the current crop will be, so find another peg for your vote.
PS. What influenced our
founding Fathers more, scripture or the Enlightenment? "The Key to understanding the American Revolution is balance. The Revolution was not Christian, but it stood for many things compatible with Christian faith. It was not biblical, though many of its leaders respected Scripture. It did not establish the United States on a Christian foundation . . ." Quote from Mark Noll, Christian historian at Notre Dame and formerly of Wheaton College.

roj2000, why would you compromise yourself and vote for the guy that you say the majority of "nut cases" would vote for and become one yourself? Isn't this the mentality that you say the citizens of your home town have that you hate so much?