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November 19, 2008, 4:03 pm
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It has been some time since anyone approached this topic so I will post some questions that have some bearing on the up coming national, state, and local elections:

Do you think there is a place in the public life of our community, county, state and country for religious faith in the public square, and what should it look like?

And a follow up question:

If there is a place of religious faith in the public square what forms should that take and do we place limits on who can express which world faiths can be embraced?

Another question that comes to mind:

What is your opinion about elected officials expressing religious faith and embracing a world religion?

And a follow up to that question:

Are you concerned about elected officials religious faith creating a conflict of interest in the discharge of thier public duties?


That's quite a few...

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That's quite a few questions.....the local elected officials (such as School Board) or whom are you referring so we can answer the questions, please advise.


Submitted by Fallser4life on September 9, 2008 - 7:41am.

That's quite a few...

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That's quite a few questions.....the local elected officials (such as School Board) or whom are you referring so we can answer the questions, please advise.


Submitted by Fallser4life on September 9, 2008 - 7:41am.

To understand what I am...

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To understand what I am asking in regards to elected officials, one needs only to look at the first question. I'm not focussing on any particular type of elected official at any level, I'm interested in responses to all elected officials.


Submitted by concernedperson on September 10, 2008 - 7:40am.

Concernedperson. Excellent...

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Concernedperson. Excellent thought provoking questions.
1. Elections. I would like to know if I'm choosing to vote for an Atheist, Christian, Wiccan, Buddhist, Muslim, or Druid. However, their political leanings are probably more important than their religious affiliation. But, the less I know about a candidate the more important their choice of religion becomes. If I know the candidates well, and it's a 'toss-up', then religion becomes the probable deciding factor.

2. Public square. A big influence here is that today we seem to have migrated to a point where the majority no longer rules. If even one person claims to have been 'offended' then often everything changes to also accommodate that one person. So, that thought process influences the 'nativity' scene most of us grew up appreciating in the public square, or if we encourage prayer in school, then since the vast majority would assume a Christian prayer is acceptable must we then accommodate a prayer by a Satanic follower?

Keep Well


Submitted by RJ1127 on September 9, 2008 - 9:51am.

Yes RJ that is exactly what...

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Yes RJ that is exactly what I'm getting at: If we teach in our schools elements from other religious practices other than Judeo Christian ones do the Christians have recourse to force teaching from thier religious practices? If we discourage such teachings and the free speech of students in one area should we exclude free speech from students in all areas simply because one of their peers finds something they say wear or do offensive? What limits do we place on such speech?


Submitted by concernedperson on September 10, 2008 - 7:51am.

NO religion has a place in...

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NO religion has a place in the public square.
I was raised Lutheran in the Falls, and was allowed to go to religious studies every Wed. in the middle of the school day. That was wrong of the schools to allow during a taxpayer funded school day.
I'm now Buddhist and can't imagine asking the teacher if I could meditate and chant in the classroom. Can you imagine...they'd freak!! And probably be very uncomfortable....well, that's probably how those few kids that stayed behind felt every Wed. during our school sponsored religious hour.

Your religion is personal...and should be shared with other like minded folks at your place of worship or in many other ways.... just not in the public square. We need to respect everyone.


Submitted by rainylakerouser on September 19, 2008 - 10:50pm.

U.S. Law provides for...

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U.S. Law provides for religious release time, when children can be taken to area churches in order to recieve religious instruction. Currently our local school system has made such provision for 3rd through 6th grade students whose parents give permission for such training. Are you referring to this time spot? Further the "Bill of Rights" allows for the free practice of religion without the interference of the state. It also prevents the state from sponsoring or promoting one reigion over the other. The problem though is that the government is made up of individuals who may or may not be involved in the practice of a particular religion. The real issue is how can someone serve as a public official and not be somewhat influenced by their choice of a world faith?
You claim that you are a Buddist, I am something different altogether. How then do we as people of faith learn to agree and live out our creeds without insulting, or worse in relation to our personal beliefs? If we as the greatest country in the history of the Earth can't find it in our hearts to live peaceably and secure how then can we instruct other countries to do the same?


Submitted by concernedperson on September 20, 2008 - 9:11am.

Very well written...you made...

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Very well written...you made some really good points. I agree with that last paragraph....the real question is ... well it's been something the worlds been struggling with since the begining....we may not find the answers in the daily journal but it's nice to discuss different points of view.
Take Care,
Rainy


Submitted by rainylakerouser on September 21, 2008 - 1:33pm.

Doesn't it really depend on...

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Doesn't it really depend on how your define the term" no religion?" As I read things, there never has been a time in the USA when religion has not been part of the discussion of the town square. We are almost unique among the developed nations in the degre to which religious pespectives are part of the public discourse. And I think it is a good thing as long as we don't forget what the intention of the founders was. It wasn't to remove religion from public life; it was to remove any establishment of a monopolistic religion from that square.

As a practicing moderate, I feel that the dangerous positions are those of the extremes. Extreme left-leaners want to remove any religious reference from American public life, whether it is "in God we Trust. . ." or Christmas. Extreme right-leaners want to create a theocratic nation where our elected officials are exclusively voicing opinions of the so-called religious right: yes to capital punishment; no to any form of abortion; yes to unlimited weapon ownership; no to any consideration of global warming; yes to intelligent design; no to evolution in any form. John McCain's choice of the inexperienced Sarah Palin appeals to the later group [McCain himself is dangerously close to being a moderate]. Obama's failure to consider bans on late-term abortion appeals to the former. Both are extreme positions in my opinion.

Religion belongs in the public square in America, but the spirit of that religion must be pluralistic. When religion/or lack thereof becomes a bully . . . well, that's the reason the Puritans, the German Mennonites, the Russians, the French protestants came to America in the first place: to escape bullying secularists or bullying religionists. Long live the plurlalistic voice of belief/disbelief in the American public square.


Submitted by Thomas L. Johnson on September 20, 2008 - 11:27am.

Mr Johnson I usually tend to...

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Mr Johnson I usually tend to like and agree with most of your postings but this one I take some exception to. Your statement about the founding fathers not wanting to establish a monopolistic religion is incorrect. What the founding fathers and the framers of the constitution wanted to avoid was allowing the church to run the state, or vice-versa.
Secondly unless you are involved in some religion or religious organization that I have never heard of, most of the religions that I am aware of look at the sanctity of life, and the stewardship of the earth as a responsibility given by the Maker to us the inhabitants. All life is precious and the destruction of one whether the embryo or the life of a mass murderer is not good, but sometimes necessary. To take a life even our own, is to put ourselves in God's place and deny HIs sovereignity over His creation. McCain's choice is also just that his choice, whether good or bad time alone will tell.
Thirdly you don't sound like a moderate to me, there seems to be nothing moderate over the choice of material included in your post even as examples of extreme positions, something that is more politcally motivated than spiritually motivated. As for the public square being a pluralistic voice that is just as it should be, only no one voice should be the controlling voice, all should be treated equally as long as they promote peace and justice as the way of american life.


Submitted by concernedperson on September 29, 2008 - 2:31pm.

I remember in the mid...

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I remember in the mid 1960's, being in Alexander Baker school and having religion class on Wednesdays. With a note from home you could go to one of the local churches and receive classes in religion. The operative words here are "you could"!! The way it worked was like this; the school said YOU WOULD GO, and to make it so-called legal, you WOULD bring in a note from your Parents. Then you would be marched over to one of the churches so you could learn all about the bible. You could OPT OUT of these classes, however the punishment was "severe". Myself and a few others decided to "opt out" (hard to believe roj2000 doing that), and see what happened. Well, let me say that AB school had the cleanest erasers in District 361. We also were given many other demeaning tasks in hopes of us finding the Lord!! When all of this didn't work, then the Principle threatened us with corporal punishment from that sick SOB of a teacher who like to beat young boys in the closet. I think he was aroused afterward, "I swear to God, I do"!! Anyway, that convinced us to head on over to Zion Lutheran for a little nap. Now I've got nothing against religion, just as I don't have anything against drinking, etc.... But, I AM against "forced religion"!! In fact my children went to Catholic schools, for a GOOD education, structured learning environment, and a little religion thrown in. But if your kids are going to one of the worthless public/Government schools, then religion need not be forced upon them. At least give them a choice of whether they want the religion training. But, don't do as the Staff at Alexander Baker school did, and use threats to force religion down your throats! THAT IS WRONG, not matter how you look at it. I think you should keep it out of the public schools, because then you will have the Buddists or Mulsims wanting to wear toga's and diapers on their heads to school, and disrupt the whole senario. If you want a Buddist or Muslim teaching school, then START your own school. The taxpayers should not have to pay for your little rug to kneel on to pray. I can imagine the children of Tom Cruise arriving to school in their private spaceship for "their" religion classes!!


Submitted by roj2000 on September 20, 2008 - 10:53am.

That was weird, I was really...

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That was weird, I was really enjoying your response because it addressed a lot of what I was talking about...until the last part when you insulted my religion and made me sound like some leftest nut wearing a diaper on my head. Well, adleast your children went to GOOD schools, somewhere off the compound. I wasn't asking for my own school. At the time, I was one of the majority and always felt bad for the kids left behind...they treated them horribly!! Later, in my adult life, I'm now a "minority religion" and have worn both shoes. I was saying, relgion shouldn't be pushed on anyone and no religion should be considered community endorsed and supported by the state. I think we actually agree on most of it..but the last part was a little harsh.
Take Care,
RLR


Submitted by rainylakerouser on September 21, 2008 - 1:51pm.

rainy, I'm sorry if I...

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rainy,

I'm sorry if I insulted your religion, but from your earlier entries, I assumed you were converted to Buddhism, but then you said you were offended by the "towel on the head" comment. I did not know Buddhist's wore such [get ups]!! I actually have great respect for the Buddhist Religion, but sometimes that gets thrown in our faces, also! But, what doesn't these days?? I guess I have a bad taste in my mouth ever since 9/11/01, when these arab funda[mental]ist's, decided to blow up our buildings, etc.... I do not respect someone who adopts a foriegn religion just because [it's the cool thing to do], so that they can garner a little more attention to themselves. But, when I see American's walking around with towels on their heads, I tend to believe they are just in it for the attention. I do not think they are part of a secret cell, just waiting for the call from Allah to take part in another terrorist attack on this Country. Those people [in the terror cells] are already here and just waiting for the right time to blow us up again. Thank you for your compliment on my choice of schools for my children and grandchildren. It's a shame that our government [Public] schools cannot get the job done. I wonder how Littlefork schools are performing. I'm sure there has to be a couple of [performing] schools in Minnesota. Thanks for backing me up on the horrible treatment us "non attending" students received when we decided we would rather [opt out] of religion class. It also makes me sick when I see those "left wing" Politicians who at the end of their speaches, they love to throw in "God bless the USA", but are the first ones to want religion out of the classroom, and God out of the Pledge of Allgiance. They all can go to he**!!!! I guess they would rather have Sen Obama's Preacher yell, "God Da*m America, God Da*m America"!!!! Another thing I can't stand is when I see football players all huddle together, "praying" that the OTHER team loses. I could see if they were praying for a safe game, etc., but you know it is just a phony little show they are putting on. GIVE ME A BREAK!!


Submitted by roj2000 on September 21, 2008 - 6:50pm.

I agree....

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I agree.


Submitted by rainylakerouser on September 22, 2008 - 1:08pm.

Wow Roj, it seems as if you...

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Wow Roj, it seems as if you have a very old axe to grind here. No child come from the public schools to religious training unless their parents allow it. I agree no religion should be forced on a child period. However if thier parents choose for them to go it would seem that it isn't our business to overule the voice of the parent. God in his soveriegn wisdom gave us parents, and tasked them with the responsibility of training that child many things like morality and spirituality. It really saddens me when I see kids being bussed to church and not brought by their parents. Reseach has shown that by the time most children get to the age of 16 they leave the churches for a morally and spiritually devoid life. That it seems to me explains the current state of the country, how businessmen and government officials make such bad choices that cause the need for the government to have to loan money to the businesses to keep our economy from failing. It would seem that our current market system is just as bad as the communist one.


Submitted by concernedperson on September 29, 2008 - 2:43pm.

concernedperson, Yes, I do...

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concernedperson,

Yes, I do have a very big axe to grind, and I'm not done yet. Where did you go to public schools? When I was in Alexander Baker school, they decided to have Wednesday, religion teachings at various churches. Now, here is where it gets tricky!! The teacher said, take this note home and have one of your parents either check the block, a) is allowed to attend religion, or b) no they will not attend, and you can do whatever the hell you want to with my child while he is not in religion class. Since my Parents could give a flip about Religion, they checked the box for stay in school. That is when I and a few others got to do very demeaning tasks, up to the point of getting the S**t beat out of us. When that psycho teacher threatened that, then we all got "RELIGION" in our blood (instead of spilling it)! Now how is that for "religion classes"?? I believe religion is like any other thing, "good in moderation"! If you choose to believe in it, GREAT, you are much the better for it. If you choose to worship a walleye fish, go for it, and see where it gets you. But, don't get bug eyed, and start yelling , Allah-Allah, and blow up our buildings. Then I will come after you and do bad things to you! Simple as that! But, I disagree with your point that a lack of religion has led us to our current mess in this country. There are just as many phony politicians running around with their little bibles, as there are legitimate ones! Religion has never been the "cure all" for our problems. It just makes you feel better when you get the crappy news. The fundamentals of our current market system are sound, just ask McCain!! Even Barak "the chosen one" Obama said so today!


Submitted by roj2000 on September 29, 2008 - 4:57pm.

Roj, Jesus was against...

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Roj, Jesus was against religionists as much as I am. I wouldn't force religion on anyone since I find that to be very restrictive. What I try to help people to do is to have a relationship with God according to His terms which I find very liberating. Anything less just doesn't work.


Submitted by concernedperson on September 29, 2008 - 7:31pm.

The first whites to touch...

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The first whites to touch North American soils were the Norsemen (Vikings). Thor was their god, carried a hammer and enjoyed using it. His adherents, apparently, liked to copy ‘big papa” Thor’s example as they hammered, ravaged, raped, pillaged and killed anything that was “not of Thor.”

The next set of whites that came to America, was during The Catholic “Inquisition” period. The adherents of this flavor of Christianity, crucified, drew & quartered, burned at the stake, beheaded, ripped out entrails, ravaged, raped, pillaged, tortured and killed anyone that was not of “the One True Faith.” (Their faith.)

The Red man watched the white devils deposit viruses at Plymouth Rock for which their immune systems had no defense. The Rhino virus, Influenza, TB, Measles, Mumps, Whopping Cough, Diptheria, Typhoid & Scarlett fevers, Small Pox and (last but not least) Protestantism. These infections infected ravaged millions. Whole races and cultures disappeared. “Ethnic" cleansing? Pilgrims, Puritans, Quakers, and George Armstrong Custer figured they were doing God's Holy Will. Now, by the time July 4th, 1776 rolled around it had become fairly evident that religion and government were poor bedfellows. More than one bedmate, could only live in peace, in separate bedrooms.

For most of America’s history, “seperate beds and separate bedrooms did not mean “A divided house, shall not stand.” No, separate sleeping arraingments met the difinition: “Seperation of church and State.” It also meant that Christians of different denominations, (‘though in the same bedroom) slept in separate beds. Everything went along swimmingly with this setup until . . .

Monday, June 17th, 1963 . . . when the Idea, The Great Experiment, called “America” died. What happened? Well, on that fateful day, The Supreme Court overturned Baltimore Superior Court Judge J. Gilbert Pendergast’s 04/27/61 decision against Madalyn Murray’s lawsuit (Murray versus The Baltimore Board of Education). You see, Ms. Murray wanted to take “God” and “prayer” out of public school. Out of anything that had a single government dollar contributed to it. She hated God, (especially the Judeo-Christian God) and (by god) she wanted to spit in God’s eye. Well, at first, it looked like she had lost, and (as they say) “That was that.” WRONG! New York Times headline, 06/18/1961:“2 CASES DECIDED; Government Must Be Neutral in Religion, Majority Asserts Insists on Neutral Stand Seek to Soften Criticism Varied Voices Speak 2 STATES INVOLVED IN MAJOR DECISION Government Must Always Be NEUTRAL ON RELIGION, MAJORITY ASSERTS Find Conflict With Beliefs 'Decisively Settled' Argument Dismissed Says Proof Is Required Some Activities Exempted”

If you please, I direct your attention now, to this portion of the headline: “Government Must Always Be NEUTRAL ON RELIGION, MAJORITY ASSERTS.”

Question: Today, is the Federal Government really neutral when it comes to religion?
The answer? NO! Capital “N”, capital “O.” Today you see, the Christian religion is a safe, soft, target open to attack. To underscore my answer, just listen to comedians as they (safely) say anything they please about Christians to generate laughs. The ancient Romans did this, and not since those times, has the persecution of Christians risen to such heights. This not the case, however, with other faiths. Comedians dare not make fun of Satanists or the Moslems because they'll kill you and your whole family. Okay, (this may sound like a joke, but) comedy is not government. Comedians take their cue from government as to what is fair game and what is a “sacred cow” and should be left alone. The federal government, which, although at war with terrorists belonging to ‘The Nation of Islam” are protected in many identical situations, where Christians are not. Why? Because unlike their wild mustang years of genocide, Christians have become tame ponies. Today, they are closer adherents to what Jesus actually taught. Today, a true Christian will not slit Conan O’Brian’s throat if he makes fun of Christ. He and all the other jokers are safe because today’s Christians (finally) have learned to turn the other cheek. They forgive. They believe in mercy, and they believe that revenge is reserved only for God. He “taketh” and (there-for) only He . . . can “taketh away.” Remember, I'm talking about true Christians, those who actually follow and do what Christ taught.

How can I tie this up in a neat little package and put the genie (Madalyn Murray O’Hair) back into the bottle. How can Christians return to the “olden times,” the “good ‘ol years” before prayer was banned from public schools. The short answer? We can’t. (Yeah, I said "we." I’m a Christian) The long answer? We can’t, put prayer back in school without an amendment to the constitution.

As I write this, I must tell you, I’m just a spectator with an aisle seat. Best movie in town this here earth. For that’s all earth is, a stage play. When things seem confusing and frustrating for me . . . When things anger me . . . I just say to myself, “Phone concerned person." If crying on his shoulder doesn't help, I pray to the Lord "Tell me God, It’s only a movie, Right? It’s only a movie. Dear God, please provide me with an alternate ending.”

Earth feels like re-ality, tastes, smells, looks and sounds like re-ality, but it’s not reality. When I go out for popcorn (the hospital?) I may come back or I may go home to real Reality. When I leave this theater, I’m going to enjoy not arguing with six billion fellow actors each of whom believe that they're the stars of their own movie and the rest of us extras and pawns. Believe me, I won’t miss that kind of chaos at all.


Submitted by Mongo on September 21, 2008 - 9:11am.

Wonderful posting. I am...

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Wonderful posting. I am glad you are talking again during the movie, Mongo.
Because Alexander Baker was brought into this discussion by the individual on this blog who does yell "fire" in a crowded theater, I will go on record saying that the "good ol years" were too overtly Christian to be good even for folllowers of Christ. I do remember singing from a Christian songbook in my favorite fourth grade class; I do remember that the Jewish students at
AB were released early before the largely sacred Christmas concert. While the release time classes were meant to be voluntary and pluralistic -- and that has been the test in the USA -- those who didn't participate may have been forced to clean erasures.
Making fun of "corporate" Christianity is a little like making fun of Nike or Coca Cola. Or PC's. When something gets really big and institutional, it becomes an easy target. And something that big will demonstrate obvious abuses like the anti-gay "Christians" who disrupt military funerals. But taking that abuse down to the personal level is another matter. I personally avoid Coca Cola, but I never insult my former student who has an executive position in the firm. And I think that most who lampoon Christianity are the same -- it's about the entity, not the individual adherents. I for one think it's pathetic and even destructive to Christianity how Dobson and Rove have somehow managed to link conservative Christianity with right-wing Republicanism. On the other hand, I am usually wise enough not to insult my friends who happen to be both Republican and Christian. It relates to the line they like: hate the sin; love the sinner. [PS. this is meant to be a joke]
As someone who teaches students educated at public schools, at Christian schools, and in home schools, I can discern very little difference between them by the time they are college students.


Submitted by Thomas L. Johnson on September 22, 2008 - 10:23am.

So, "yelling fire in a...

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So, "yelling fire in a crowded theater" is what I do, huh?? NO, I would say, what I do is, call a "spade and spade", and NO, I'm not talking about Obama!! By the way, who has been making fun of Corporate Christianity?? I was just at Frankilin Graham's Festiville last night, here in the Holy City, and it was great. But, I hope you are not including the Muslims and Buddhists in "Corporate Christianity" are ya? 95% of ALL Muslims are a bunch of phony wackjobs, who had better stay overseas. The ones that are here, need to be profiled and watched very closely!! Look at ALL of the bad things that have happened in the last 20 years, and almost all of it was caused by Muslims!! I really don't think Dobson and Rove have the market cornered on Christianity. Every one of those hypocrite Politicians who walk around with their little bibles on Sunday, and end their speeches with "God Bless, etc.," are just doing it for the vote. Most of them could give a rat's A$$, about religion. But, religion seems to hit a soft spot in alot of Americans, but they can't fool me. Stick to the subject, and leave the religion out. Git it off your sleeve Mr Politician, and get to work on our Country's problems. Speaking of the line, "hate the sin, love the sinner", was it Jackie "O" or John Edwards wife who used that line? Hmmmmm..... TLJ, you can't tell the difference [with your students] because they are carefully screened "before" they come to your prestigious school, and have "already paid" the very expensive tuition, before you even set eyes on them. The rest who don't make it through the door, end up in UMD or RRCC. LOL


Submitted by roj2000 on September 22, 2008 - 12:34pm.

It is what you do and have...

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It is what you do and have done again. In your 20 odd lines, you managed to insult about 1/2 of the 6 billion people on the globe with your ethnocentric hate-filled spew. Congratulations. Of course, you was jes pullin' our chains. So who's the phony wackjob now?


Submitted by Thomas L. Johnson on September 23, 2008 - 3:10pm.

TLJ, No, I didn't pull your...

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TLJ,

No, I didn't pull your chain, "I YANKED IT"!! Why the lovefest with the Mulsims, anyway?? So easy do we forget the terrorist attacks of the past 8 - 16 years! Bill Clinton was "TOLLERANT" of the Muslims when they attacked during [his watch], and look what he passed on to poor ole G.W. Bush! You don't think the Muslims weren't watching as Slick Willie stuck his finger in the air, to see which way the Political wind was blowing? I say to hell with sticking your finger in the air to see what the Muslims may want to do, unless it's your middle finger. No, instead, how about a little profiling here, a little wire-tapping there, a few well placed "smart bombs", and Clinton could have passed on a kindler, gentler Muslim community to G.W.!! But, NO, we have forgotten ALL about what happen during Clintons rein, and the events of 9/11. The good book says's we must forgive and forget, right? I say BS!!!! I know, you consider me a "phony whackjob" because of my comments about the "Nazism" tactics during my time at Alexander Baker School, and my comments regarding the students at your University [great school by the way, just a little expensive]. Just because I'm not very tollerable of the Muslim faith and followers, does not give you or anyone else the authority to paint me as some sort of fascist KKK reveler, who thinks only his "white" skin is the way to go. No, no, no, [as Reverend Wright would say]. Things were working just fine when Ellis Island was in full operation. But, now, it's "open the gates" let em come in. We will pay for all of it, you don't even have to "assimilate" to OUR way of life and language, we [the Americans already here], WILL assimilate "to your culture", and "we will learn your language", so that you feel at home. And you Muslim ladies, keep your burka's on, while I take your Minnesota Driver's license photo. We're not concerned about that big bulge under your burka, and the crazed look in your eyes. After all, you may be registering to vote for Al Franken! My, how times have changed!!


Submitted by roj2000 on September 23, 2008 - 7:36pm.

And thank god they have...

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And thank god they have changed. There was a time when intelligent people from International Falls could innocently say they were "jewed" in a store, say Sher's Jewelry. Or could make a racial joke about a spade being a spade or refer to Muslims as Aaa-rabs. There was a penny candy at Nagurski's store called N******-toes. And we finished eeny meeny miney mo in a very different manner than kids do now. At least thinking kids. For all of your wit and occasional wisdom, it is your inability to leave this need to demonize and categorize and stereotype anybody who is not of the Faux Network persuasion with an outdated and outright intolerant diction that sets you apart on this blog.
You are capable of great and wonderful insights and I often have enjoyed finding points of agreement, but you seem to have a need to go to the dark side and stay there and then react in horror when I or someone else reacts to the bilge you are so capable [and apparently so proud] of producing.


Submitted by Thomas L. Johnson on September 24, 2008 - 8:20am.

TLJ, you make a good point...

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TLJ, you make a good point about how the 'thinking', 'jokes', and 'references' have evolved toward people understanding that in hindsight, these things were truly insensitive and entirely inappropriate.

However, I do disagree with your regular reference to the Fox Network being the Faux Network. Fox is the only Network that regularly offers a conservative opinion. While their mix of commentators is certainly a bit right of center, they do have their share of Liberal commentators too. Most of their regular hosts are right leaning centrists with the exception of Sean Hannity who is an extreme right wing flame thrower. Fox certainly has more right leaning hosts than all of ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, and CNN combined. However, they have their left leaning hosts as well.

I think a good book on this subject is 'Bias' by Bernard Goldberg, long-time former CBS reporter and devoted Democrat. He says all the aforementioned networks do not consciously plan their Liberal slant , it's just that they are all hugely dominated by Liberals and since as a group they virtually all think alike, they assume that it's normal and that's the way everybody else thinks too. The enormous popularity of Fox shows that they are incorrect in that respect. Commercially supported talk radio, being dominated by Conservatives, at least on the 'A' level, and 'B' level says the same thing.

It seems to me that the 'Silent Majority', being the middle 70% or so, is rather centrist and slightly right of center.

Keep Well


Submitted by RJ1127 on September 24, 2008 - 10:07am.

TLJ, VERY WELL SAID!!!! So,...

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TLJ,

VERY WELL SAID!!!! So, now we know where each is coming from, enough said!! My bilge huh?? In my Navy days that was where the dripping oil and leaking water collected in the bottom of the Submarine. So, I guess that is where I keep my "vile comments" stored, for use in this forum, when I go on a rant! I tend to get this way when I've spent too much time at Starbucks (with my dogs) listening to Michael Savage! Do you think I'm trying to imitate him? I consider myself alot like him, with a good grasp of what's happening in the USA, and what I see makes me mad. You know, "he said, she said, screw George Bush, let the immigrants run rampant, it's all the Republicans fault, ........", but none of the so called intelligent people of the country are stepping up to the plate and fixing the problems. Oh, sure let's elect the Community Organizer, he'll fix all our problems. This Country is so screwed up, the ones who CAN fix our woes, DON"T want the job. So, now what?? Anyway, let's get back to something more productive (if possible)!! By the way, glad to hear that you tune in to Fox News!! Fair and balanced, as always!!


Submitted by roj2000 on September 24, 2008 - 11:22am.

roj. I must have broken...

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roj. I must have broken some rule because the post you are referring to disappeared during my lunch break. Maybe we are supposed to insult Charley Gibson. Later.


Submitted by Thomas L. Johnson on September 24, 2008 - 12:18pm.

TLJ, No, the post I was...

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TLJ,

No, the post I was referring to was posted by you at about 9:20 AM today, unless you are being somewhat facetious! At the end of it your referred to my "bilge" diatribe!! I find it hard to believe that one of your posting would meet the DJ standards, for being pulled. On the other hand, they have been pretty tollerant of my rants lately! I only had one pulled in the past three months, and I deserved it. Anyway, it's water under the bridge (I hope) and onward we tread!!


Submitted by roj2000 on September 24, 2008 - 9:05pm.

Roj, I have to point out...

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Roj, I have to point out here that the Christian faith is one of love not hate, even for one's enemies. Your post promotes hatred of those humans who being misled by phony religious leaders have impacted the world with their acts of violence and hatred, yet they are still humans tainted by sin and shame, degraded and deluded in believing their acts are are of loyalty and faith to their capricous god. Jesus would not have hated these individuals any more than a parent can hate thier bad mannered or criminal child, in fact he died out of love for them just as much as he died out of love for you or me.
Remember what Jesus said about those who are his followers? They will know us by our love one for another, and if we don't find a better way to impact our world, you might as well hide in your bomb shelter and wait until the end of all things.


Submitted by concernedperson on September 29, 2008 - 2:54pm.

concernedperson, OK, I've...

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concernedperson,

OK, I've got a little project for ya!! Grab your little bible, and dress real nice like a good little American, and fly on over to the land of the Muslims, and walk off the plane amongst these animals, and see how long you last! I'll "have your back", over here in South Carolina. You see what all of this love and trust did for Jesus!! I'm not gonna sacrifice myself for a bunch of Muslims. They are still back in the stone age, and I think we should use some of our surplus nuc bombs and return them to Allah! If they had 1/4 of a brain, they would be able to use some sense and see that their way of life is not compatible with the rest of the earth. I've been told on here that I often offend most of Africa and Western Asia. WHO CARES?? Remember, stay on the offense and take the war to them!!


Submitted by roj2000 on September 29, 2008 - 5:12pm.

Roj, I have met many muslims...

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Roj, I have met many muslims and not many would be as you describe them to be. Yes in every population you have those who hate some populations more than others. Just because you see them as a threat to your lifestyle doesn't mean that they are as you see them. Stereotyping and hating those who did not have anything to do with the events that have brought us to our current national posture helps nothing. If history has taught us anything it is not to keep doing the things that won't work like killing without reason or conscience. You want to understand why so many foriegn cultures hate us? All you have to do is to look at our policies starting from the 1820's to present to see why foriegn countries hate us, we have exported our way of life on those who weren't ready for it and didn't want it I say let well enough alone. Who are we to think our ways are so much superior to those of other countries? It is that very type of arrogant policy that led Al Queda, and other terrorists to commit thier heinous acts of violence against us.
Go and take my religion to their countries? First I wouldn't presume to tell anyone that thier religion is false and built on a history of violence. They already know that, what would the point be? To live my arrogant ways in front of them and become an object of hatred for them? Actually I could do that if there was anything postive in it for them of for me. Others of my faith have done it and have done just fine. I might be able to live up to their example if those who have authority over me wanted to send me since I would not refuse them.


Submitted by concernedperson on September 29, 2008 - 6:59pm.

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